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By Didi Williamson
 | | Todd Bentley, the Canadian evangelist at the centre of Florida's 'Lakeland Outpouring' phenomenon. |
PEOPLE SAY there's a modern-day Pool of Bethesda -- in Lakeland, Florida, of all places.
Canadian evangelist Todd Bentley of Fresh Fire Ministries came to the small town of 90,000 people April 2 for a weeklong revival at the charismatic Ignited Church, and reports of miracles like those from Bethesda in Jesus' day began pouring out of Lakeland.
Broken elbows heal. Hepatitis C disappears. Heart murmurs are no longer recognizable. Crippled people walk. And the dead rise.
These claims come with very little documented proof, but Bentley says he wants to certify every healing he can.
"The Bible is full of visions, encounters, signs, wonders, miracles and manifestations that people have experienced, some of which may be downright hard for many to wrap their minds around, let alone believe it could happen today," Bentley wrote in a letter to the public June 8.
Bentley's nightly meetings, called the Florida Healing Outpouring, are now held under an air-conditioned tent with room for 10,000 visitors at Lakeland Linder Regional Airport and are broadcasted live online at GOD.TV. They're drawing international attention, and hundreds of thousands from all over the world are flocking to Lakeland for healing, revival and "more of God," which Bentley frequently cries out for.
Answered prayers
Pastor Mario Bramnick of New Wine Ministries in Cooper City say the Florida Outpouring is an answer to his church's prayer for revival.
When he visited on more than one occasion, he says, "It really appeared that there was a Sovereign move of God at Lakeland . . . Some believe that healings have stopped with the apostles, which is not scripturally true. Jesus said these signs shall follow those who believe. They shall heal the sick, cast out devils and raise the dead . . .
"It would be difficult to fabricate so many miracles."
But many notable Christians say these miracles are a result of fabrication -- and are merely magic meant to soothe "itching ears" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
"I have no problem going on record and saying this guy is a false prophet . . . with a capital 'F,'" says Tullian Tchividjian, grandson of Billy and Ruth Graham and pastor of New City Church in Margate, Florida. "And it shouldn't surprise any of us, because the Bible warns us about this from cover to cover. John Piper once said that Satan does not tempt us with poison, but with apple pie."
Bentley's appearance
Bentley's prickly exterior and colourful past make some Christians flag him as a 'questionable.' He is covered in tattoos and piercings, was reportedly imprisoned for sexual molestation prior to becoming a Christian, and practices being 'slain in the Spirit,' which sometimes makes him laugh hysterically or roll on the floor in fits of spiritual fervour.
But Bramnick says God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. "Todd is very clear about glorifying the Lord," he says. "Anyone who has accepted Jesus has the same power to pray for the sick in the name of Jesus, and they will recover."
Healing and angels
While Bentley frequently rouses the crowd to cry out for "more of God" in anticipation of healing, Tchividjian, who recently authored the book Do I Know God?, says promising to heal hurting people is dangerous.
"At least from a biblical standpoint, there is no doubt that God can and does heal people . . . Sometimes he chooses to do so, and sometimes he does not," he says. "There are many people, like my grandmother, who God chose not to heal -- and that's okay."
In fact, accounts have surfaced that Larry Reed, pastor of Olympic View Assembly of God in Silverdale, Washington, visited the Florida Outpouring in early May and celebrated being healed from terminal bone cancer -- before passing away May 27.
Tchividjian also notes that Bentley claims to physically abuse people in order to heal them.
In one sermon recording provided by Way of the Master Radio, Bentley said the Holy Spirit told him to bang a crippled woman's legs up and down on the stage, and then finally, "The Holy Spirit came over me . . . and said, 'Kick her in the face'" -- and he did. Only then was she healed, he says.
Angels and accountability
Bentley also says he's been visited by many angels and seen Jesus in the flesh. Bentley says one female angel, named Emma, visited him and sprinkled "gold dust," illustrating financial blessings, on the congregation where he was preaching.
"She floated a couple of inches off the floor. It was almost like Kathryn Khulman in those old videos when she wore a white dress and looked like she was gliding across the platform," Bentley wrote on a page he has since removed from his website due to controversy.
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"Within three weeks of that visitation, the church had given me the biggest offering I had ever received to that point in my ministry," he adds. "Thousands of dollars! Thousands!"
When Geraldo Rivera questioned Bentley about his finances, he said he receives no monies from the offerings taken at the Florida Outpouring. His salary provided by Fresh Fire Ministries provides him with a modest living, he says.
In another interview, he also noted that one night's offering at the Florida Outpouring was being sent to help refugees in the Sudan.
Heavenly anecdotes
Bentley also claims to have visited the "third heaven" on more than one occasion.
In one interview with Patricia King of the TV show Extreme Prophetic, he claimed to have ascended into heaven with prophetic minister Bob Jones after simply closing their eyes at a noisy restaurant.
In another instance, he said he visited the cabin where Paul lives in heaven -- and Paul told him that he and Abraham co-wrote the Book of Hebrews.
"We obviously have a problem with these statements and do not believe them to be biblical," stated Dan Hickling, ministry assistant to Pastor Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel Ft. Lauderdale.
"We would hesitate to put the 'revival' tag on what's happening in Lakeland. True Spirit-led revival is always accompanied by the conviction of sin, the confession of sin and the repentance of sin. And if these aren't the dominant evidences in Lakeland, I don't see the scriptural validation for true revival," Hickling said.
Saving the lost
Despite the criticisms of the Florida Outpouring, Todd Bentley maintains that the entire point of the Florida Outpouring is indeed salvation.
"Our mission is to save the lost. Period. Everything that is happening at Lakeland is to that end," he says in a letter to his critics. "God is good. People are being saved."
According to Bentley, his visions, manifestations and encounters with the Lord -- like when he saw Jesus face to face in his kitchen and God in his living room as referenced in his November 13 sermon, available via his website -- are God's response to his faith, and are meant to point him closer to Jesus Christ.
"To apply doctrine to the response of God in our lives is wrong," he wrote. "For someone to assume that something that happens to us isn't of God because it's not in his or her doctrine or knowledge of Jesus is, in my opinion, to grieve the precious Holy Spirit."
He also says that he does not practice the worship of angels, like many people claim.
"Mary, Paul, Peter, Jesus, the shepherds and several disciples . . . had angelic encounters, and some interacted with them in conversation. That doesn't suppose they worshiped these angelic beings or sought them for revelation apart from God." he says. "Let it be said, that I seek only God for revelation -- and should he send me an angel to me to impart revelation, get my attention, or open wells of revival and healing, so be it."
Bentley also writes that he is well aware Jesus said there would be false signs and wonders in the last days done by workers of iniquity.
Bentley writes, "Salvation is knowing Jesus and being known by him; it's much more than spiritual works or a verbal confession. I understand that lofty places in this visible kingdom are no proof of anyone's acceptance with God, and neither are the mighty works, even done in Jesus' name."
However, he also says his miracles and healings are proof that the Florida Outpouring is a move of God and that "we should place no limit on further revelation from God."
Bramnick of New Wine Ministries also believes these miracles validate Bentley's ministry.
"It is just elevating the faith of the church to believe what the Bible says. Beyond the signs and the wonders and the healing, it is bringing a new dimension of hunger and intimacy with our Heavenly Father," he says. "With the fruit of drawing people closer in their relationship to Jesus and people who are bound with cancer, crippling diseases and other infirmities being set free, I have a hard time understanding how other Christians would say that this is not a move of God."
However, Tchividjian reminds Christians to test every word that comes out of Bentley's mouth like the Bereans tested what Paul said in Acts 17:11.
"We increase our scrutiny of people like Hugh Hefner, and we decrease our evaluation of people like Todd Bentley just because he comes in the name of Jesus," Tchividjian says. "Hugh Hefner is not nearly as dangerous to the church as someone like this . . .
"I would pay much more attention to those people who have stood the test of time. I would pay very little attention to anyone who comes and says, 'God told me something that he's never told anyone else, and you can't find it in the Bible.' It's a lie, it's that simple."
-- This article originally appeared in The Good News in South Florida. Used with permission.
July 3/2008
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in an orderly fashion is clearly being flouted indeed a lot of what purports to be the Holy Spirits' moving is nothing more than the use of mesmerism and mind control techniques!! [b]the Scriptural teaching that "If I be lifted up "[..Christ that is!!] all men will be drawn unto me" is being subjugated in the cult of personality [c]the linking of Todd Bentleys so called ministry to dubious and indeed spurious "healers/evangelists such as William Branham and John Lake shoud have " alarm bells" ringing for any believer with spiritual discernment.May all truly Spirit led fellowships be on the guard in case they are infiltrated by this movement!!!
I was asked recently, "How in God's name can you endorse Todd Bentley?" This is my response:
Have you spent time with Todd? Do you know him? Have you watched him with his wife? Or have you seen how he treats his kids? Have you spent any time with his staff? Have you been to his ministry? Has he been to yours? Have you laid hands on him and prayed? Has he laid hands on you and prayed? Have you grieved over tragedy together? Have you celebrated victory together? Has he sought your counsel? Has he traveled a great distance just to meet with you privately for advice?
Have you ever received his counsel? Have you been in the room when God has showed up on him, and used him in stunning miracles? Have you seen him operate in word of knowledge or the prophetic? Have you met with his counsel of elders? Have you personally benefited from his gift?
Has he benefited from your gift and ministry? Has he ever honored you for who you are in God? Has he partnered with you as a friend? Have you sacrificed for his welfare, or that of his family? Have you sought God with him? Have you ever worshipped the Lord with him?
I didn't think so. I have. And I'll continue to support those who I have walked with in life and ministry. He's my friend. More importantly, God calls him friend. And if you and I were ever friends in that level, and people hated you and turned against you, and started web pages to tear down your ministry, and criticized you to your friends, and wrote against you in Christian magazines, and criticized you on the radio, and wrote emails to other conference speakers and authors, I'd still be your friend.
By the way - criticism in the form of a question is not a question.
But to respond your statement, "How in God's name can you endorse Todd Bentley?" It's easy. I do it in God's name.
Bill
At least have the wisdom of Gamaliel who said of the Apostles signs and wonders:
“So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!” Acts 5:38-39 (New Living Translation)
All of us will answer for every miss-spoken word, so I won't write what I'm trying not to think about some of the above comments... not Bill's - he's a hero.
We no doubt will soon see the truth revealed with Todd Bentley. I, myself keep an open mind for the sake of knoing that i can't possibly know for sure whether it is of God or not, but I do very strongly beleive that it is just that - of the Lord Jesus, and that he is showing the world who he really is.
As for medical verifications of these moracles, I have been in touch with Fresh Fire Ministries and spoke with a very kind lady who explained to me they are in the process of getting past a U.S law so that the documentation can be made available to the media. She also said that 'we are working very hard to have this done A.S.A.P' She sounded completely genuine and if this is the case then we should really not write them off as of yet.
God bless ye all!
George, Scotland.
Elizabeth
Ac 5:38
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
:39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Todd Bentley is one of those "angels of light" who have come to deceive and herald in Great Apostasy!
Hallelujah--Christ is coming back soon!
This man's own words say all that needs to be said and anyone with any sort of spiritual discernment can see that this is just another verse of the same old Willaim Branham, Paul Cain, Latter Rain and Manifest Sons garbage.
God still does miracles. They did not cease with the passing of the last apostle.
"That which is perfect" of which Paul spoke has NOT come... and will only come on that day in which "we see Him and are made like Him." When we "see Him face to face in all of His glory."
I am a Spirit-filled believer and have seen many miracles over these last 20 years... NONE OF THEM were brought about by "healing angels"... they were done by the Holy Spirit in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!
You pentecostals and charismatics had better wake up and smell the coffee...
There was a smell of Vanilla in the air, Todd said that it was the presence of the Lord. In the bathroom the soap used was vanilla. He said there was a smell of smoke in the air and it was the presence of the Lord, it was because they were burning in Abbotsford. There was Thunder and so again it was the presence of the Lord. They were teaching on the third heaven visitation. The person teaching it was from Bob Jones University who at one time was in TM. They believed that if it happened in the occult than it could also happen in Christianity. I had got prayer, but I should not have because I was not comfortable with it. That is when the Lord spoke so strongly to me that I should get out of here because it was not of the Him. When I got back to our church, I needed ministry as I was really oppressed of the enemy.
Where in the bible is there a female angel named Emma. Angels are not created male or female. We are to judge according to the Word of God.
Emma-O’, derived from the Sanskrit Yama (see Yama), is the Japanese Buddhist Lord of Jigoku, or Hell (see Jigoku). Emma judges souls and places them in hells appropriate to their crimes. In this context there are a total of eight hells. These have been described by people who were for one reason or another released from punishment. The hells are a popular subject for Japanese scrolls. Emma’s primary enemy is Jizō (see Jizō), always a supporter of the dead souls against Emma and usually the victor over his dark adversary.
As Jizō’s popularity has grown and Emma’s diminished, Emma has become a demon.
Blessings, Shirley Miller
leaders "[some of whom have had severe doubts cast on their own ministries!!!]but this does not automatically authenticate his "ministry". .Please consider the following carefully.[a]has he been linked to William Branham and John Lake who are regarded as heretical?? [b]have there been a consistent verification by EXTERNAL sources of authenticity of the "miracles" performed at his meetings??[c]Are the gatherings at Lakeland conducted in the fashion they should be as laid out in the Book of Corinthians??? [d]I have already asked the question"can anyone explain the neccesity for the very obvious and blatant "whipping up" of the congregation by those in charge,the use of repetitive chorus singing ,the exhortation that "something was going to happen",the extreme body movements and headshaking.Are there ever times when those who are responsible for the frenzy recall the words "be still and know that I am God"??? [e]Regarding his looks I know John The Baptist did not "conform" to the norm but why would God "instruct" Todd to cover himself in Tattoos which are more likely to be associated with those who are involved in deeply unscriptural practices??? [f]We are instructed to "test the Spirits" 1st John 4v1 ,"weigh up CAREFULLY what has been prophesied" 1st Corinthians 14v29 .We are told that God "is not a God of disorder but of peace" 1st Cor14v33 Can any of those "apologetics" for Todds "ministry" honestly say they have applied that criteria??? and finally I have yet to come across a defendant of his who have used any Scriptural references to "back up" their defence of the aforesaid!!! Does this not speak volumes???!!!!
This is an outpouring that has Pentecostal, Later Rain, and Charismatic roots. These groups generally have the same biblical evangelical message of salvation that the non-charismatic evangelical believers have but instead of emphasizing the decently and in order part of 1 Corinthians 14:40, we emphasize the LET ALL THINGS BE DONE part.
All I'm saying is take your focus off your brother with the speck in his eye and get thousands saved in a biblically decent and in order manner. There is enough unsaved for all of us. Many are getting saved, baptized, healed and delivered at the Lakeland Outpouring. How many are with the John Douglas Ministry? I hope it is many.
As for repetitive chorus singing, we are just getting ready for heaven. Revelation 4:8-9 tells of the living creatures not resting day or night saying:(over and over and over...) Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was, and is, and is to come. That sounds repetitive.
Regarding "whipping up" Paul told Timothy (2 Tim 1:6)to stir up the gift of God which is in you. I'm not a big fan of hype and the like, but I believe they are honestly attempting to stir up faith in the room. It's really hard for a western mindset to believe in the supernatural.
Why do people manifest, shake and the like? Sometimes it's because "the hand of the Lord was strong upon me" Ezekiel 3:14. Sometimes it's man in the flesh. Sometimes the demonic manifests in the presence of God many examples in the gospels. When the natural wind blows a leaf will manifest the wind. When the wind of the Holy Spirit blows sometimes a body manifests.
Finally the be still part makes me laugh. A few weeks ago I was defending the Lakeland Outpouring to a guy who was critical because Todd spends hours most days in quiet meditation before the Lord. Also maybe you should keep watching the revival for a while because some nights the quite presence of God manifests many bow to the ground.
Just for you John I'll finish with a long scriptural reference from your favorite chapter 1 Corinthians 14
v.1 desire spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy?
v.5 I wish you ALL spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied
v.6 what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching.
v.24,25 if all prophesy...the secrets of his heart are revealed, and so, (manifesting) falling down on his face, he will worship God.
v.26 Let all things be done
v.27 If anyone...each in turn
v.30 For you can all prophesy
v.39 Desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
John, I pray for you that you will honestly seek God for all that he has for you. I pray you will desire earnestly spiritual gifts and like Saul in 1 Samuel 10:6 "Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you, and you will prophesy...and be turned into another man."
And as to the pouring out of financial blessings... I think if you really want to hear that message Joel O'steen does it better.
John Piper said it best when he said what makes God beautiful isn't when He gives you a BMW. What makes God beautiful is when you smash your car into a telephone pole and your little girl dies and you say to God... You are enough. Jesus is enough.
I hate to be the one to say this but someone needs to... THIS IS BULLSH*T!
If you have a problem with that, spend some time in Phil 3 where Paul discusses religion apart from Christ.
What he does might actually bring people to know the true Jesus, but that doesn't mean HE knows or even represents the true Jesus.
Kicking people in the face to heal them, or kneeing them in the stomach to anoint them is simply NOT Biblical in ANY sense. When Jesus, Peter, John, Paul and others healed people they did it with mere words, or an outstretched hand, not a foot to the person's face. The only time people fell to the floor and writhed around uncontrollably is if they were under the control of sin. What Bentley does to "heal" or "anoint" people is the OPPOSITE of what is Biblical.
Connie, I don't think Todd is marvellous, I think he is a weak sin prone human being used by God. I hope you are being used by God to the very best of you're talents and gifts that God will give you. But your propensity to judge is disturbing.
I was raised in a conservative bible church, went to a mainstream Christian College, have read my bible through several times and have a solid knowledge of the scriptures. There are thousands, if not millions of bible believing and practicing Christians who disagree with your views.
99.9+% of the time Todd lays hand on the sick. In a couple instances he has been "violent", but I believe in each case of "violence" the people were healed. I don't know about you, but if I had stage 4 cancer and was given months to live, I wouldn't mind being healed in such a way one bit, and neither would you. By the way could you explain away for me - "The kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take it by force."
Still waiting for your comments and answer on these questions Duane!!!????
Here the context, a Christitan's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, certain diseases are demonic in origin, so just like Jesus drove out money changers, so too sometimes, rarely, a demon must be driven out of a body. As you can read, from that shoehorn of scripture, it is difficult to give a chapter and verse reference for another person's action. Especially one that I never saw and have only heard of from his critics. I have read that Smith Wigglesworth, a famous Pentecostal, also used violence occasionally. I remember reading of him picking up a dead man slamming him into a wall and demanding he come back to life. The man did, completely healed.
I have read a book on William Branham. He was mightly used of God in the healing revivals of the 50's, but then got into serious error later in life. I don't know where Todd stands on the doctrinal errors of Branham, I think he has rejected the later errors.
I know less about John G. Lake other than a short biography that didn't have anything negative to say. I know that John G Lake healing rooms are being spread all over the world and I know several wonderful people ministering to the sick in these rooms, by laying on of the hands and anointing with oil. So you'll have to fill us all in on the horrible John Lake.
I looked up on biblegateway.com the word angel* and got 291 verses in the Bible. Angels do many different things in the Bible including strengthening Jesus after the fast. So I would say from Genesis to Revelation the Bible has a continued emphasis on angels. My daughter, a few years ago at around the age of 8, genuinely saw an angel and was instantly healed, so as long as angels aren't worshiped, I don't have a problem with them.
I don't know if Todd was instructed by God to get tattoos or if he just wanted to. I have known other Christians who have had Christian symbols tattooed on them as a witnessing tool. He may be breaking an Old Testament law, but then I had shrimp for lunch today, so I guess I broke another one today as well. It's a good thing all us sinners are not under law but under grace.
13We know that we live in him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If ANYONE acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
Connie I have seen Todd Bentley praise Jesus Christ as King of Kings. He lifts up Jesus after people are healed in Jesus name. By what spirit could all of these miracles be from. The devil? Why would he lift up Jesus? and now why would my wife (who went to Lakeland) be praying for people in Jesus name and see them healed and set free from curses from the devil??? That is a house divided. The woman at the well had a checkered past, but she became an early evangelist for Jesus. Jesus chooses odd folks, I guess. Have a good day Connie. God Bless you.
You seem to have expressed it very concisely [and I couldn't agree with you more !!!]the crux of the matter is "heretical beliefs and many non-scriptural practices"!!!It is quoted in Scripture that the "God of this present age has blinded the eyes of non believers "and unfortunately it is getting to the stage where believers are being blinded[or dazzled!!] in the same way .For example last night I watched a broadcast from Lakeland and a guy in his late40s/early 50s was "leading " the congregation in "his terminology" in a funky rap to Jesus!!!.Interspersing the name of Jesus with "funky huh huh" and getting the crowd "whipped up".If it wasn't so serious it would be quite laughable!!Like yourself I am Pentecostal and a member of a [quite lively!!!]worship team but in all honesty where is the reverence for the Name of Jesus ,He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and last nite was in my humble opinion not only demeaning to God but to those gathered there in "His Name".Lets have liberty but not licence and freedom but with responsibility.
we obviuosly are in agreement on this matter. The picture that has emereged from the various exchanges of views in this discussion is that most, if not all of the people that support Todd Bentley cannot be reached, it reminds me of trying to reason with members of cults - you just cannot get through to them. Hopefully some will have their eyes opened and draw back from the brink. Sadly I think many of them will have to learn the hard way. Others will never learn.
As for the tattoos, I’ll also concede that they could be a defiling of his body, but I believe that God is more concerned with the heart.
It’s your last point that is the important one. Is the Bible alone the only source for doctrinal truths, moral issues, and spiritual guidance? For doctrinal truth and moral issues we are in 100% agreement, even through we disagree some non-essential doctrines. Spiritual guidance is another matter. All through the stories in the bible all our hero’s of the faith from Abraham in Genesis to John in Revelation received spiritual guidance from angels, dreams, revelation, and visions and the like. Much of the Bible is written describing these occurrences. Now Isaiah 30 says don’t go down to Egypt, but Jesus parents were instructed to go to Egypt in a dream. They followed the warning in a dream. David, a man after God’s heart often double inquired of the Lord. In 2 Samuel 1 or 2 David inquires should I go up to a city to become king? God answered “go up”, so David inquired again and God said “to Bethel”. (This is from memory so it close but not exact). Spiritual guidance from outside sources shouldn’t contradict doctrine or morality. God gives prophetic gifts, revelation, dreams, and visions. It’s equally true that people can get into error, William Branham for example.
Connie, I’m glad you mentioned cults. Less then two weeks ago, I went with my pastor to preach and demonstrate the gospel to a Reformed Later Day Saints group called Contemporary Christian Ministries. It’s a group of born again Christians that haven’t left the RLDS so that they lead people to Christ and away from Joseph Smith and D&C. My pastor and wife each minister the uncompromised word of God to them. They were so hungry for the Word. After preaching and teaching all day, we prayed for the sick late in the evening. A young man named Todd, was in a wheelchair suffering greatly from spinal bifida since birth. Without anyone laying hands on him, he announced “the pain is gone!” He had been able to take a few painful steps with a cane before being healed. Later we found out he had been very bitter, after being touch by God, the change in his heart just a dramatic as his physical healing. That night many people were healed and many more tears were shed in joy. Would you agree to pray with me that God would bring the whole RLDS back to genuine Christianity? Maybe if you demonstrate the love of God instead of arguing with them you will have more success?
I’m too busy and getting too tired to do this every night, I’ll read your responses but probably won’t comment until Saturday. Is that ok John!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don’t have to raise your voice:-)
Mr Bentley.
Do you believe (The Lakeland revival) is from God or the devil?
I believe the Lakeland outpouring is a wonderful gift from God. I believe it is FOR JESUS!!! I believe the walls of religious denominations are coming down. It is now about the “Church” living inside believers and has nothing to do with walls, buildings or mission statements. Our beautiful Lord Jesus is tired of his children being ignorant, sick and poor and having no power over the devil. Look in the mirror, not the splinter in your brother’s eye, but the planks in yours. It may not be comfortable for you to face. It may not fit the mold your comfortable with. It might not be wearing a nice suit. Jesus Christ will not lose! He looks at the heart; He confounds the "wise" by using people who are weak and ill-equipped. The Bible is filled with odd choices of people by our Lord. Don't do the work of the Holy Spirit, don't convict your brothers in Christ, let the Holy Spirit do that. If you don’t understand what’s going on at Lakeland ask Jesus to reveal to you through the Holy Ghost. Stop giving the devil so much power and credit. He a defeated foe and in Jesus name I bind him for the attacks he’s attempting on this Lakeland revival. I thank you Holy Spirit for giving me what to say and erasing what you did not want me to say. God Bless all.
http://www.4hurtingchristians.com/is_this_lakeland_florida_revival_with_todd_bentley_on_god_tv_genuine.html
Thanks and kind regards, Lee.
6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."
Linda, I found one reference to the Scripture you were referring to; I don't know if this is the one you meant:
Matthew 28
1. "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4. And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men." Oh, my, this is talking about an angel of the Lord, imagine that! And the keepers SAW the angel, and were afraid. In any case, we would do well to heed this:
Acts 5:38, 39: "And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it - lest you even be found to fight against God."
I only know that since I have been watching the revival, I have been touched and blessed. I want more of God, my love for Him makes me want to be used of Him in these last day more than I ever have before. You might say that I watched the revival, and 'got some.'I pray that God blesses each and every one of you and that His will for your lives will be realized.
The most overly narrow ones think only their group is saved, my parents came out of such a Church of Christ group when I was young. Others have a very detailed set of doctrines that goes way beyond the essentials of the faith. It’s when these non-essential issues are insisted upon and fought over that we depart from the narrow way of Jesus Christ, to the narrower way of religious bickering. They will know we are Christians because we insist we are right?
Not only is being too narrow a divisive problem, but being too broad is worse; they doesn’t insist upon the essentials of the faith and risks loosing the truth altogether. Several protestant denominations have moved this way dramatically.
So does the Bible give us some guidance, to keep us in a way that is well pleasing to Him and a good witness to the world?
In Acts 15 the early church addressed this issue regarding gentile believers. At the council of Jerusalem they concluded in verse 28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things.”
In Colossians 3:12 we are instructed to put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, long suffering, bearing with one another, forgiving as Christ forgave us.
Paul in Philippians 1:14-18 rejoiced that Christ was preached, even though envy, strife, and selfish ambition existed in some of the others who ministered. There is much in Philippians about our conduct towards each other. Like 2:14 Do all things without murmuring and disputing.
In 1 Corinthians 4 Paul responds to others judging him by saying, “it’s a small thing that should be judged by you…In fact, I do not even judge myself.” “Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes…” “Learn in us not to think beyond what is written that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.” God displays some ministers as spectacles, fools, and dishonored, to both angles and men. Being reviled they bless, being persecuted they endure it, being defamed they entreat. Then he says he didn’t write these thing to shame you, but “as my beloved children I warn you.”
Someone earlier wrote of eating the meat, not the bones. I think this is a good method when listening to, or reading another Christian. Take what they give, chew on it, swallow what you find acceptable, and simply don’t receive what you don’t want to swallow.
I’ve read Catholic authors and found great riches, but when I get to certain Catholic doctrines, I just move on past and keep looking for the good stuff. I can read John McAurther, who is anti-charismatic, and find much solid bible teaching.
Maybe that why I can also rejoice with the Toronto Blessing, get re-energized by the Brownsville / Smithton Outpourings, and “get some” anointing from Todd Bentley even though their manifestations, language, looks, ways and methods are hard to swallow. Remember some of the best meat is closest to the bones!
The Florida Outpouring is being used by God; many of us have been deeply touched by the Holy Spirit, have received fresh anointing, and have taken it back home and seen breakthroughs, like I wrote about earlier with the RLDS. It’s sad that so many are not receiving the good that God is pouring out, because of the bones.
2 Chronicles 5:14,Matthew 17:6,Matthew 28:4,John 18:6,Acts 9:4-8, Revelation 1:17 In only one of these cases was there a falling down because of things that happened during a worship service or a church gathering [reference 2nd Chronicles5v14] and that was the start a new phase in the divine covenant with the JEWISH nation. In none of these cases did it happen because anyone laid hands on or said prayers over anyone in the context of a gathering of the New Testament Church.With reference to TODAYS occurrences is has to be noted that many of these occur in highly charged and emotive where people almost expect to fall down.Please read carefully the following eyewitness account of a gathering at Lakeland....quote"The ON-STAGE DANCING throughout this conference was a good example,which had a rather 'wild' aspect to it which truly made me uncomfortable in my spirit. One came across like a sensual 'Harem' dance. Much of it really felt "off","Worship" had a very "tribal" feel and soon they were doing dance items with loud voodoo-style drums only - leaping around in a frenzied circle making weird cries to the super-amplified beat. The feeling was oppressive and "pagan" during this and I could hardly even bear to stay in there. One main prophet got up and said "people may feel uncomfortable with such "pagan" type dancing, but that it was originally God's type of dancing and we were just now 'stealing back' what the pagans had stolen from God"!
What could be more blatant? What kind of 'spirits' do are being transmitted to people who open themselves up to that? There is no discernment in this movement AT ALL"....Unquote .This came from a former Pastor who has been associated with the Toronto Blessing and Prophetic movements for 11years .Can you now understand why fellow believers are so concerned for brethren and sisters like yourselves who are so obviously devoted to God???
Duane, I also much appreciate your comments that we should not be so narrow minded as to judge and convict others of sin or not following God if their ways of worship and preaching is not "like" ours. I truly do believe that denominations have separated Christians for too many years to the point that we judge one another severely because their faith is "different" than ours. Unity of belivers is one thing that Todd points out all the time--that believers are becoming united in their worship and faith in God through this revival. The revival in Lakeland is encouraging and lifting up believers to "another level" as Todd often says, Our faith must grow as we mature and grow in Christ. If our faith level is the same now as it was 20 years ago, we haven't exercised our faith and allowed Christ to grow more in us.
My whole point with Lakeland is as Duane said--many have been re-energized and blessed by the Holy Spirit while there. I am blessed even while watching at home. Some of the things occuring there cause me to take a step back and ponder on it--but I refuse to be so narrow minded as to allow these things to keep me from the worship and praise of my Heavenly Father. As for some dancing, etc. being "pagan" as quoted by a former Pastor associated with Toronto Blessing--I believe that believers have been so oppressed by the restrictions of their "religion" that when the Spirit moves, that freedom just allows them to be totally free to dance, whatever unto HIM!
Again, I ask those of you condemning this revival to keep an open mind and heart, to receive what God has for you from this, and surely our God is BIG enough to bring this to a halt if it is not of HIM!! Refer to Acts 5" 38, 39. We can surely all agree on that?!?! Methods that Todd Bentley utilizes may be unconventional, but as long as I see Jesus lifted up, the Father glorified, I choose to "get past" that and watch. I, like Shirley have been there and "got some", even staying after God tv went off the air to be a part of the impartation service--I do not want to miss a touch from God even if it comes from a man who looks like Todd looks. Surely, the Father gives us discernment to "filter" HIS work and the enemies, to know the difference. Again,read Acts 5: 38, 39--and trust God!! I have been blessed by this revival and encourage everyone I know to watch it. I pray all be blessed to follow after Christ and be sure of their salvation IN HIM alone. Linda Gail Jenkins, Picayune, MS USA
I have prayed for people who have gone down, (the first time it was quite surprising.) I have been a catcher many more times. It is often real, sometime it's a courtesy drop, (when the person praying has bad breath.) I now look at it as no big deal, unless I'm a catcher and the guy is 6'6" and 300+ pounds.
I get the impression that some people who are negative towards those who have expressed criticism of Todd
and the revival do so without having seen or heard some of the things being promoted by Todd..
Here are few links for your consideration..
Todd claims to have the annointing, the mantle and "the angel" of William Branham
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CnLfmInYF0k
William Branham denied the Trinity and said it was of the devil (see http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2625897/k.B7DF/JAW7551.htm)
Todd apparently had a visit with the apostle Paul who revealed that he co-authored Hebrews with Abraham
http://heresyhunter.blogspot.com/2008/06/mystery-of-who-wrote-hebrews-solved.html
God apparently said it's about getting the people to believe in "the" Angel and not in Jesus
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc&feature=related
Are we supposed to baptise people in the name of the Father, Son and Bam ?
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/mass-sheeka-boom-ba-in-the-name-of-the-father-uh-the-son-and-the-bam/
God apparently told Todd to kick a woman in the face
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_K8XjObzfXM
God apparently also told Todd to knee a man in the stomach who had stage 4 colon cancer, visibly hurt after
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DUTCWLoD4-4
Why does he lie about his tatoos ?
http://sheepyweepy.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/before-or-after-tracking-the-tattoo-trail/#comments
ABCnews Nightline report on Todd Bentley
part1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hp_SXpy8q7w
part2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=69p-vJfWudo
Todd has made claims of thousands upon thousands of healings, the reporter asked for proof of three, based on what
Todd's ministry provided the reporter says not a single claim could be verified (part2).
Index of articles from a blog following the revival, subjective but there's useful info there nonetheless (video/article links etc..).
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/index-to-all-articles-on-todd-bentley-lakeland-outpouring-florida-revival/
Todd does not deny the trinity. Branham was powerfully used of God, but fell into error. Angelic involvement is described in many places in the Bible. This doesn’t make him a false teacher.
Todd apparently had a visit with the apostle Paul who revealed that he co-authored Hebrews with Abraham.
Just to clarify the claim is that Paul wrote Hebrews. Many already believed this. And this makes him a false teacher? What doctrine does he deny?
God apparently said it's about getting the people to believe in "the" Angel and not in Jesus.
He was making a point of emphasis. Christians already believe in Jesus, so his emphasis to Christians is to get them to believe in the supernatural realm. He preaches Jesus as the way, truth, and life. Many have gotten saved at the outpouring.
Are we supposed to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and Bam?
It sounds like Todd has a nickname for the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t deny the trinity. He does seem to like to stir up controversy.
God apparently told Todd to kick a woman in the face.
God apparently also told Todd to knee a man in the stomach who had stage 4 colon cancer, visibly hurt after.
Apparently they were healed. This is not a recommended procedure and one Todd has rarely used. There has been much discussion about this in previous comments. If they were healed, who healed them? If God told someone to knee me in the stomach and my stage 4 cancer was healed, I’d be very thankful. If I wasn’t healed, I would forgive that person for his over zealous attempt to drive out the cancer.
Why does he lie about his tattoos?
If he did lie, then it proves he is a sinner. It doesn’t make him a false teacher. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. Martin Luther had people put to death, we look back and say he was wrong to do that, but we don’t label him a false teacher, unless your Catholic of course.
ABCnews Nightline report on Todd Bentley
Todd has made claims of thousands upon thousands of healings, the reporter asked for proof of three, based on what Todd's ministry provided the reporter says not a single claim could be verified.
This proves that the privacy laws in this country are being kept by Freshfire Ministries. A North Carolina newspaper about a month ago found seven or eight if my memory is correct. This proves that ABC didn’t try very hard and may want to discredit the work of God. The secular media is always unbiased, right?
http://www.charlotte.com/345/story/676559.html
“Fresh Fire Ministries announced yesterday that Todd Bentley would be taking some time off to refresh and to rest from the Florida Outpouring after nearly one hundred days of ministry. The Lakeland meetings will continue and Todd will remain the leader of this move of God.
GOD TV as the exclusive broadcast partner in the outpouring knows our viewers have been incredibly blessed through our nightly broadcasts with many lives changed, bodies healed and souls refreshed - we have received thousands of e-mails testifying to the work of God in your lives.
We will continue to stream the LIVE services from Lakeland every night on our dedicated Florida Healing Outpouring stream, (click on Watch Online on the left and select the Florida Healing Outpouring stream) and also make available the most recent service via our on demand platform. However we will take the opportunity to rearrange our broadcast schedules and bring you some incredible primetime programming - including the 2008 Hillsong Australia Conference EXCLUSIVELY on GOD TV, Rodney Howard Browne’s Summer Campmeetings LIVE and many more programmes - PLUS highlights of some of the best nights from the Lakeland Outpouring - this will also all form part of our Battle For Britain initiative in the UK.
We will make another announcement once Todd is fully refreshed and rested about the resumption of our LIVE broadcasts from Lakeland - but until then, you can continue to enjoy the nightly meetings LIVE at www.god.tv/stream and if you are watching on GOD TV then you have lots of great programmes to look forward to plus highlights from the outpouring.
Eli Miller, a senior leader of Fresh Fire Ministries and a long time associate of Todd Bentley announced today that Todd Bentley, leader of the Florida Outpouring, will be taking some time off. “We are grateful for our partnership with GOD TV that has allowed this revival to go around the world”, Miller said. While the revival will continue, the leaders of Fresh Fire believe it is important for Todd to take some time to re-fresh and to rest.”
Person 1 “I hear there is a Church where you can dance in your underwear at Church gatherings!!”
Person 2 “Never !! Do they have any proof texts for this ???.
Person1 “Oh yes Read 2nd Sam 6v6 vs 14thru20 about
King David when he did it “!!.
Person 2 “ Now just think what we could happen in our meetings if we DON’T have proof texts!!!.
Apologies for the slight “tongue in cheek” BUT please think carefully about the implications of your statement..
Linda regarding your statement and I quote” Sad to say, many will miss out on being "touched" by the Father in this way because they choose to interpret scriptures differently. That is their privilege--and in fact, that is why that each person will get a different message from scripture--because it is the LIVING WORD OF GOD!!!”Is God the authour of confusion??!!If you read carefully the “proof texts “offered up by the proponents of “being Slain in the Spirit “ these would undoubtedly give the most expert exponents of exegesis great difficulty in extracting Scriptural authority for a such a practice but of course I forgot you don’t need it, according to Duane!.These proof texts are as follows plus comment 2ndChronicles 5:14,Matthew 17:6,Matthew 28:4,John 18:6,Acts 9:4-8, Revelation 1:17 In only one of these cases was there a falling down because of things that happened during a worship service or a church gathering [reference 2nd Chronicles5v14] and that was the start a new phase in the divine covenant with the JEWISH nation. In none of these cases did it happen because anyone laid hands on or said prayers over anyone in the context of a gathering of the New Testament Church. In conclusion I am rather saddened by the inference of your comment that only those who are involved in this “Being Slain in the Spirit “ will be touched by the Father!!!.
Just to clarify the claim is that Paul wrote Hebrews. Many already believed this. And this makes him a false teacher? What doctrine does he deny?
God apparently said it's about getting the people to BELIEVE in "the" Angel and not in Jesus.
He was making a point of emphasis. Christians already believe in Jesus, so his emphasis to Christians is to get them to believe in the supernatural realm. He preaches Jesus as the way, truth, and life. Many have gotten saved at the outpouring.
Are we supposed to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and Bam?
It sounds like Todd has a NICKNAME for the Holy Spirit. He doesn’t deny the trinity. He does seem to like to stir up controversy." DUANE in all seriousness I cannot believe someone who has come from a conservative Christian background AND has been to a Bible College AND claims to know the Scriptures can give give any credence or justify any association with Todd Bently."Has had a meeting with Paul,Has a nickname for the Holy Spirit"!!!.Surely in light of the FACT he also now cannot substantiate miracles does this give you an indication as to where he REALLY is coming from!!!![Sorry for two postings in a row!!]
I copied the following from http://rouses.net/blog/13_propositions/proposition-5-where-bible-is-silent.html
'The scriptures acknowledge a class of "disputable matters" (Rom 14:1). Those are matters that are not spelled out in plain language in the scriptures (perhaps including cases where the scriptures are silent). It seems to me that we are clearly instructed not to draw lines of fellowship on those matters.'
John, this has been a big debate throughout church history. Luther is on one side, while Calvin was on the other. So here is my "proof texts" on all these non-essential topics. Romans 14:1 "Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things."
AND
Galatians 5:13-15 “For you, brethren, have been called to LIBERTY; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
As for my association with you and with Todd Bentley I'm trying to love my neighbor. I consider Todd Bentley, John Douglas, Connie, Jim, David, Shirley and the other who blog here as brothers and sisters in Christ worthy of love, respect and the benefit of the doubt.
I am firmly in the camp that Todd Bentley is also in. ABC News is outside the camp and may want to destroy the camp. Who else wants to destroy this camp?
My passion is for Philippians 2:21-22 21 in whom the whole building (camp), being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
I believe Todd Bentley is REALLY coming from a genuine desire for the things of God. I believe John Douglas is REALLY coming from a genuine desire for the things of God.
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation Jesus is gathering believer into one body. Todd and John may be from different spiritual tribes but are being built together into one body, bride, temple, and city.
My Christian experience has been one of growing up in a dispensational, non-charismatic Church of Christ, then a Plymouth Brethern fellowship, to a Baptist Church or two. I’ve also visited Catholic, Presbyterian, Anglican groups. I now belong to a fellowship associated with Che Ahn’s Harvest International Ministries, which followed seasons in a Later Rain Restoration group and several Vineyard Christian Fellowship’s. I’ve led or been a part of several citywide prayer groups. The vast majority of these have been Bible believing with a genuine desire for the things of God, but often very different some areas.
I’ll finish with a twisting of scripture to make a point.
The Anti-Psalm 133
1 Behold, how bad and how unpleasant it is
For brethren to devour and scatter in division!
2 It is like having no precious oil upon the head,
Not running down on the beard,
The beard of Aaron,
Nor running down on the edge of his garments.
3 It is like a famine with no dew of Hermon,
Drying out the mountains of Zion;
For there the LORD commanded a curse—
death forevermore.
I agree it's time to draw a line under it. I've enjoyed the discussion as well. Just as it seams to upset you that we won't come to the "light", so I am saddened by the name calling and division that seams to all occur when God pours out His Spirit, through zealous but imperfect servants.
Believe it or not I have been revived in this outpouring. My heart is more steadfast, I pray for people and they get healed, and I even find myself able to love those who call me either a blind guide, a follower of a blind guide, or worse. I also pray that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of your heart to look past the practices, claims, and methods that disturbs your gray matter and see His hand at work among us all.
I also pray that many of your countrymen will be saved, healed, baptized and / or delivered by your ministry as well as Fresh Fire's.
Since John has drawn a line after leveling a “blind guide” and “come out and be separate” references, putting them in context may be helpful. Matthew 23 is about legalists who weigh people down with many rules, but then stone the prophets, that God send to them.
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
In 1 Corinthians 6 Paul goes to great length in describing his ministry including verse 8 “through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors;” He then appeals for those in Corinth to “open wide your hearts” to his ministry. Paul had many who opposed him and ask those in Corinth not to side with unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." 17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." 18"I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
So here is what John’s final scriptures say in context (among other things). Don’t stone the prophets and don’t join in with unbelievers (ABC Nightline) who want to destroy God’s messenger.
The organized Church with all of its multiple denominations is just like the friend who attends to the bridegroom. It was essential how thy helped ready the way, but now the Body or the Bride (that’s you and me in Christ) must now become greater and the organized Church must become less. Unforonatley, it seems there is resistance with some denominations to embrace the Bride; they do things to interfere with the Bride’s readiness. They speak badly of her, they throw stones at her, and they even try to kill her. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE HER! The REAL body will be one unit, with many parts, and those parts will be in unity in Christ.
Meanwhile I personally know of a youth group that has recently dealt with serious demonization because of adhering to this "anointing".
I sincerely pray that everyone here who turned their brains off and their spiritual discernement off and leapt into this thing with all their fleshly hearts - I pray that you have since humbled yourselves and repented. And I sincerely pray that Todd (and all the SuperDuper Mega Prophets who endorsed him) have repented of this too.
Much damage has been done - especially to the little ones in the faith. Let's start eating the meat of the Word and grow up into spiritual maturity and then maybe, in God's mercy, we'll give our fallen society genuine HOLY signs and wonders.