By Lloyd Mackey

TWO Victoria ministers, married to each other, are separately involved in the leadership of two historic churches.

Both churches, the downtown St. Andrew’s Presbyterian and suburban Oak Bay United, are facing interesting challenges about property stewardship and community service, related to their handsome century-old (give or take a bit) red brick edifices.

Ian and Kathy Victor have been involved in an adult lifetime of ministry together, in Alberta, Ontario and British Columbia. They moved to Victoria two years ago from Ottawa, when Ian accepted the role of senior minister at St. Andrew’s. After careful thought, Kathy became part of the pastoral team at Oak Bay United.

Eight years ago, following her ordination to the Presbyterian ministry, Kathy was appointed to a pastoral charge near Ottawa. In due course, Ian accepted a call from St. Giles Church, just blocks from Parliament Hill.

Ian had held pastorates in Petrolia, Ontario, and Eckville, Alberta, before moving to West Vancouver Presbyterian 18 years ago. During those years, Kathy had been active in the Cursillo movement, preaching in pulpit supply situations and working with special needs children.

It always seemed natural that she, like her husband,  would be ordained to the ministry of word and sacrament (as they refer to it formally in the Presbyterian Church in Canada).

They both affirm that it was never their intention to serve together as a husband-and-wife team in the same church.  

Kathy enrolled at Vancouver School of Theology, in the Presbyterian track. Ian was one of her teachers. He taught a course entitled ‘Denominational Applied Liturgy.’

“It was about things like how to baptize without dropping the baby,” he quips modestly.

Both Ian and Kathy enjoy the traditional pastoring, preaching and teaching roles of ministry. And they are appreciative of the opportunity to be not only in separate churches, but in different denominations.

“It is liberating to be under different ecclesiastical authorities,” Ian points out – noting that, at their best, both denominations are authentically in the Reformed tradition with which the couple are comfortable.

Kathy is working with Gail Miller, the lead minister at Oak Bay. The pastoring-preaching-teaching model works for her, leaving Miller free to concentrate on the considerable building restoration issues at the church.

Likewise, for Ian. He confesses to not being a real estate development expert, and notes there are several excellent lay leaders at St. Andrew’s who are quite capable of working through that process.

BCCN had one question for Kathy: With statistical evidence indicating that churches led by female ministers experience a drop-off in male participation and leadership, what is it like at Oak Bay?

Simply put, she says, that church does not follow the trend – if there is one. The 300-strong congregation has shown increasing male participation in recent years – not the least example of which is Ken Adsett – who, along with Miller, is heading the church’s building restoration capital campaign.

The futures of both church buildings are likely to be as rich and storied as their pasts.

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Senior minister Ian Victor is seen with his church, St. Andrew's Presbyterian, in Victoria. His wife Kathy is seen at Oak Bay United, where she works as one of the pastors.

St. Andrew’s was built in 1889. When any church that old undergoes refurbishing, says Ian, “you never know what you will find underneath, when you begin to pull up the flooring.” Some surprises can send the costs soaring.

This explains the recent decision at St. Andrew’s, to explore working some sort of redevelopment partnership with Westbank Developments – owners of the property abutting both the church on the north side and 1950s vintage Kirk Hall on the west.

The bottom line, says Ian, is the desire to redevelop in a way that “makes us better stewards of the property.”

The building, he adds, “should be supporting the ministries of outreach and mission, rather than the congregation needing to finance the upkeep of the building.”

The idea is to replace the Kirk Hall and the Westbank-owned commercial lowrise next door with an office tower. The ground floor will house retail tenants. The next two storeys would be used by the church, featuring meeting rooms, a gym, a thrift shop and classrooms. The rest of the building will be offices. The structure could be in the range of eight to 10 storeys, depending on how the numbers crunch.

 Ian says the exact nature of the church-Westbank arrangement is still to be decided.

Meanwhile, at Oak Bay United, the building is newer – but the issues are more crucial.

The church was constructed in 1914 at Granite and Mitchell, just south of Oak Bay Avenue, to house St. Columba Presbyterian Church. It took the name of Oak Bay United shortly after Church Union in 1925, when Canadian Methodist, Congregational and Presbyterian churches merged – becoming  the United Church of Canada.

In 1992, the sanctuary was condemned and set for demolition. Engineers believed it was in danger of imminent collapse, owing to structural flaws. The congregation moved to other facilities.

In the early 2000s, the leadership revisited the demolition question determined the church could be restored and made safe. The estimated cost was more than $3 million; but it was felt the price could be justified because the building would serve the community in many ways.

As implied at St. Andrew’s, Kathy says, there is an emphasis at Oak Bay on “a love of the scripture and a commitment to the study of the word that guides and shapes us.”

She notes that, even though their division of work puts her in the pastoral area and Miller on the restoration side of things, they keep close contact in the areas of spiritual and teaching leadership.

While the figures are fluid, indications are that close to one-quarter of the cost has been raised so far. A community campaign began June 23. They hope to have the roof replaced in the summer, and restoration done during the winter – with the aim of being in the sanctuary by next Easter.

July 2007